Ask Ryan! 　Multiple Languages Simultaneously

By Ryan | Published: July 9, 2010

A new question from reader Lavena, asking about how to incorporate new languages into her studying without messing up her L2.  Here she writes:

So, I’ve been studying Spanish for quite some time now and I feel very comfortable with the language. Recently, however, I have taken up a new challenge- French. My studies are going well and I’m progressing alright. But there’s a problem- I’m afraid my Spanish is already deteriorating a bit. Do you have any suggestions for sustaining your second language while trying to learn a third? Thanks!

So what do I say to that?  Well, I’m new to the game myself, and had a number of failures.  But I did have some insight.  It should resonate with some of you.  Here it is:

Hi Lavena!

I’m pretty new to the third language thing myself, so I can only give you something from a smaller area of experience than learning my second. 

I have a problem with priorities.  With anything beyond simple hygiene habits I find a general  inability to maintain equal priority, and so I have found that it works better if I tier them.  I’ve had the same problem the first time I tried to run Japanese and German together, and ended up failing pretty hard at both.  So now I tier my priorities. I’ll try to explain my rationale for this here.

People who can speak “a little bit” of a language are a dime a dozen.  Anybody can flip through phrase books and pick up some things and then have a good time in a language.  I don’t begrudge them this, as traveling the world has been very popular as of late and I do think that the world is generally better for it.  However, in terms of utility and doors of opportunity, someone who owns a language inside and out gets more things thrown at them.

And so I prioritize my language learning to reflect the fact that I am specializing in Japanese, but that I am learning German.  Currently, I’m not feeling a pressing need to put more sentences in my SRS for Japanese (although this will change in a few weeks), so my scale of priority works like this:

  1. SRS reps: Japanese
  2. Some extensive reading: Japanese
  3. SRS reps: German
  4. Extensive Reading/Adding sentences: German

When I go back to adding sentences in Japanese, I’ll probably put it back in step two somewhere.  I alternate between extensive reading and adding sentences to fit my mood or to work on what I feel may be a weak or neglected spot in my training. 

The other thing you can do is study your third language through your second until you get to a point where you can handle the monolingual dictionary in your third language.  For the record, I’m not there yet in German, but I’m hoping to get there in a few months.  Also, since I have no current plans to move to Germany, I’m not rushing this one.  This allows you to get some L2 practice while you work on your L3.

My limited experience says that managing multiple languages is more of a time management issue than a technique based one.  As such, figuring out your priorities and use of time will be far more key since the techniques you’ve used to learn Spanish should work equally well for French as well (doubly so since they are in the same language family, and thus share similar structures).

Peace,
Ryan

So what say you people?   Is there anyone out there learning their 3rd language?  Anybody who has two cents is more than encouraged to give us what you got down below in the comments!  Anybody who has a question to ask, go ahead and send me a message!  I’m looking forward to hearing from you!

Take care!

Posted in Ask Ryan!, Third Language | 4 Comments

SRS Trick: Holding the Line

By Ryan | Published: July 7, 2010

What do you do when you’re overwhelmed? 

Particularly with Anki, which has cumulative review (Surusu does not, having the limit set to 35.  You can then do additional reps afterwards), this can be a nasty problem.  Nobody likes opening their SRS program to see hundreds and hundreds of cards awaiting them (I can totally relate, when I was doing Heisig, I once had 600+ cards in one day of kanji I only kind of knew).

The trick here is that usually you’re adding too many cards every day.  As a result, some cards go through fine, but other cards are building up under the weight of your daily load, thus making it harder and harder for you to actually learn them at the daily rate you’re attempting.   

The trick?  Take a week off, do only reps for that week.  The first few days will be tough, but as you start getting better and better at the cards that you haven’t really given yourself the time for, you will notice that your daily load goes down quite significantly.  Do this until the daily load goes down enough that your blood pressure doesn’t rise every time you see your SRS.  Then continue doing it until you’re ready to add new cards again.  Piece of cake.

Posted in SRS | 16 Comments

A Confession on the New JLPT

By Ryan | Published: July 5, 2010

Many of you were wondering.  Now you will know.

I went with a couple of friends and colleagues yesterday to take the new JLPT (N1).  Many long-time readers of the blog will know that I am not very fond of this kind of assessment because of the way people single-mindedly set their sights on the test as the be-all and end-all of their linguistic studies.

Let’s start with some of the new time changes.  There were a few nice things about this.  The test started later in the day and it is now significantly shorter.  More of a three-hour deal instead of a five-hour one, with a significant break in the middle.  No waking up before the sun is up and preparing everything to get in a bus or taxi and roll out to the testing center before you’ve even had the chance to wake up.  It’s more of an afternoon affair.

The Japan Foundation also decided that they would redo the JLPT and issue it twice a year instead of once a year.  Nice.  I arrived with all of my stuff at the testing center about half an hour ahead of time, got myself something to drink to prevent any upcoming headaches, then showed up with my stuff and sat down for the test.

In general, promises the Japan Foundation made to make the kanji/vocab/reading section of the test consist of less questions with a high degree of inauthenticity were followed through on.  Kanji wasn’t a huge deal.  Heisig people who know their readings will be fine.  No more questions that would suddenly and inexplanably turn into kana and then ask you to compare to other sentences that were similarly not actual sentences that you’d encounter in your Japanese studies.  I actually finished this section with 20 minutes to spare.  My biggest worry about it is whether or not my eraser was strong enough to take out my dark pencil.

There was one sentence where you would have to kind of use all four provided answers to complete a sentence, and then identify the position of one of the answers.  This was a new construction, and when I first heard of it, I feared the worst, but it was actually pretty smooth sailing there for me.

Break time.  Sit down with some guys from Indonesia who were taking the test, and we start looking over some of the questions we had doubts about.  Thankfully, all of my doubts were assuaged.  I need to trust my intuition more!

Back for the listening test, which is only about an hour long (really, every section is shorter than it is on paper, since it takes so long to get started).  Someone gets red carded and kicked out behind me.  I don’t know what for.  This section of the test was also fairly short (which of course, reduces the margin of error, which makes me kind of flip out, but once again, you have to trust your intuition).  They took out all of the drawings and diagrams, and went only listening.

You’re allowed to take notes in your test book but not in your answer key on this part.  I quickly learned that it was good to eliminate wrong answers in the book.  My only beef here is that it’s not clearly written that you can take notes on every page, but there was space for notes on each page.  If someone who works on the JLPT is listening, I’m hoping you can make that standard in the future.  I really stressed out on that.

All in all, I felt pretty good.  And the test is better.  But I’m still not a big fan of the test.  Or rather, I’m not a fan of what the presence of tests do to people who study, who just want the certification and miss out on all the real studying and learning that happens.  I also took the test because it’s important to give it it’s fair shake, even if I don’t like it.  And I should at least know what I don’t like in this area.

I really do think that people who should take the test shouldn’t really focus on the test itself.  Study because you love the language for a few years, then sit down and take a test like this on a lark, not because you’re thinking about some paper with your name and face on it somewhere in the future.  Don’t aim for and obsess over this kind of thing.  I worry it damages the process and you start worrying more about the goal than the journey.

This is true with all tests.  That they’re really won and passed every time you open up a book, listen to some other language material, or otherwise have an adventure in the language of your study.  There’s no point studying on the day of the test because if you don’t know it then, it’s already too late.  Start succeeding in your studies years before, and passing will be the inevitable result.

Posted in Japanese | 13 Comments

Learn Japanese, Conquer the World

By Ryan | Published: June 30, 2010

Though not necessarily in that order. 

Sometimes I get really nostalgic for some games I played in the past.  One of those games is called Civilization.  I don’t know if any of you have every played it.  I’m currently playing the fourth installment whenever I have free time. 

I get nostalgic about it because one of my mothers (yes, you read that correctly) introduced me to it.  She also got me into Tetris, but Tetris isn’t really that text-heavy and so not really note-worthy here.

I started playing this game when I was in elementary school.  And man, did I learn a few things about the world.  I got schooled big time.  The game is ridiculously text-heavy, since it’s essentially an empire-managing game.  Economics, military sciences, politics, scientific achievements, etc.  You name it, it’s present in the game.  You’re also managing diplomacy with other empires at the same time.  And since you’re essentially covering human history from the stone ages to the current era, you’ve got a lot of material to cover.

I decided to get this at the nearest electronics retailer by my house.  Brought it home, installed, started playing. 

It was a very humbling experience.  I understand quite a bit, but this still humbles me every now and then.  But that’s to be expected.  The series had a huge hand in me getting literate in my native language.  It’s only natural it’d school me again.

Anyways, if you like that sort of nerdy thing, here’s the Japanese link  to some screenshots.  Enjoy

Posted in Book Reviews | 11 Comments

Language Learning, Translation, and Identity (Part 2)

By Ryan | Published: June 28, 2010

So last time, I was mentioning some observations about language learning and its purpose in becoming yourself in a different mode, that being communication in a foreign language/culture.

How does that intersect with translation? 

I’ll be honest, I’m writing and trying to figure it out at the same time.  And I’m using translation to cover both written form as well as interpreting for the purposes of this article.  I’ve had some experience doing side projects for Japanese friends while here.  I’ve either interpreted for people on radio shows, or translated curriculum outlines, or assisted in helping people understand contracts, or things of that nature.  Although, let’s get this straight, I am not a translator (or at least I wasn’t until recently, but the point is that Durf has way more on me, check out his place, it’s sweet.), I’m currently just a small-time dude keeping my options open.

Clearly translation is something that is less than self-expression.  You’re deliberately not being yourself.  Yet, unless you’re doing something specifically supposed to be removed from subjective thought, like technical documents or marketing, you may be trying to be someone else.   This requires a high level of empathy with your client.  You are essentially leveraging your language skills to help them be who they are in the other culture. 

Which brings me to a point about mastery of a language.  Mastery of a language is personal in the sense that only you can do it.  But it’s social in that it requires you to participate to a nominal degree in the culture.  Yes, even if you are reading.  When you read text, you will come across ideas that are conveyed differently from the ideas you encounter in your own culture.  It is your job to determine to what degree this idea is mainstream in your target culture.

This is the other reason, to continue with the Bruce Lee thoughts and metaphors, that Bruce Lee thought that actually fighting people was really important.  A skill that is not exercised is actually not, in fact, a skill.  It withers and dies like everything else without food and water.  Learning a language is the same.  No one can simply do some studying, talk to some people, say “I’m done now,” and then never come back to it again.

Well, they can, but their language is gone, and so is their ability to express themselves in said culture.  But learning a language allows you to give to a culture, which allows the culture to give back to you in a way ultimately more rewarding than simply doing it for the lulz, if you know what I mean.

Anyways, thanks for following the rant, it was fun trying to suss out exactly what I was trying to get at here.  But language as a means of self-actualization with personal and social components was a fun topic to write about, and you guys seemed as good of an audience to share it with.

Posted in Philosophy & Language | 14 Comments

Language Learning, Translation, and Identity

By Ryan | Published: June 27, 2010

 

“I am not teaching you anything.  I just help you to explore yourself.”

- Bruce Lee

We change when we learn languages.  But do we really become different people? I’ve been thinking about some of the philosophical underpinnings of language learning, and some of its implications when it comes to language learning, and what it means with translation.

People have always talked about wanting to know how to say something in a language, and not focusing on how to do something in a language.  I think that this is not necessarily the best route of attack.  The reason of course is obviously culture.

Part of the challenge of learning a language is that you get to a point where you can say almost everything you want, but it won’t have the effect that you want.  Think about self-promotion.  In America, it’s perfectly natural and accepted to talk about what you can and can’t do.  But in Japan, it’s a quick way to get known as a braggart.  Just because you can know say it, doesn’t mean it will have the same effect.

People who don’t know how to speak Japanese ask me how to say certain things, and I sometimes tell them that they can’t say it.  This frustrates them because they believe that learning a language is about learning how to say everything you want.

That is true.  But you must also learn when to say certain things as well.  What we are looking at here is the difference between a focus on meaning and a focus on effect.  You could talk on and on about how good you are, but the effect is that many Japanese will not appreciate it.  But if you were to put yourself in positions where your talents would be put to use, and then make sure to act humble right before you wow the audience with your prowess, then the effect actually accomplishes what you were looking to do in the first place, which was to build social proof.  There do exist plenty of people who are self-promoting in Japanese culture, but the operate way differently than the same group of people in say, America. 

In this way, you’re choosing how to express the part of you that was looking for that, but you’re aiming for the effect, not the meaning.  Because once you have immersed yourself in a culture for a while, you will learn that you interpret the same body of information differently from the culture you’re getting used to.  Part of the process of learning a language is learning how they decode the same input.

This is why I’m a huge fan of learning through context, instead of simply learning the meaning of words and stringing them together.  People who do the latter are asking “How do I say X?”  But people who are doing the former are asking “How do other members of this culture say X?”

You see the difference?  Bruce Lee is also quoted as saying “Take things as they are.  Punch when you have to punch.  Kick when you have to kick.”  Good martial artists know what is being referred to here.  Instead of trying out the flashy move that you just learned (or happen to be good at) you need to use the one that works in the situation you’re in.  Language is the same. 

Just as martial arts is in essence the expression of one’s self through movement of the body, language learning is expression of one’s self through the conveyence of thought and participation in social discourse.  This is why I believe that the more you throw yourself into learning a language, the more yourself you become, not less.  You will be called upon to express yourself in terms of how your culture operates back home, but first you must learn to become a willing participant in the new culture that you have chosen. 

So if language is the expression of one’s self through a different MO, then what happens in translation?  It’s something I’ve been thinking about for a while, and something I’d love to write about in a post late this week.  Stay tuned.

Posted in Philosophy & Language | 10 Comments

Navigating the Sushi Restaurant

By Ryan | Published: June 27, 2010

Tomorrow’s piece will be something a bit heavy on the philosophy of language side.  I’ll be covering self-expression, identity, and translation in languag learning.

But today is just goofing off.

I’m a huge non-fan of preseting 挨拶 (aisatsu – set greetings) in list form and having people remember them one after the other without context.  However, I would accept this lesson presented by Nice Guy 人 as a suitable means of learning to navigate the 挨拶 of 回転寿司. 

I love the very obvious riff off of 2Pac and Dr. Dre’s “California Love.”  Brings back some memories for sure.

Posted in Fun Stuff | 1 Comment

Read if You’re a Heisig person!

By Ryan | Published: June 26, 2010

You must check this out.  The  supplement for the new Jouyou Kanji. 

The amount of respect I have for James Heisig is fairly close to infinite at this point.  Those of us trying to become literate, and thus functional members of Japanese society, owe this man a huge, huge debt.

Posted in Getting Literate (Kanji) | 11 Comments

When Your Measurement Bites . . .

By Ryan | Published: June 23, 2010

Or, “What do you do when you have a ruler and need to measure something longer than twelve inches?”

People who’ve grown up in a school system generally believe that straight A’s means you’re doing pretty well.  Although, in Japan, you’d need straight S’s.  Which frustrates me to no end because it defeats the point of following the alphabet.

And where did E go again?

But I’m here to tell you that grades are probably a pretty bad measurement of your skills.  Here’s why.

Grades measure domain knowledge, not improvement.  If you take intro (language) 101 after having spent one year already learning a language, you will probably get an A that you shouldn’t be proud of.  You shouldn’t be proud of it because you just wasted a semester not actually getting better at your language, and in fact parts of it have atrophied because you weren’t practicing some of the harder stuff that you learned. 

It gets better.  Imagine two teachers with different teaching styles teaching the same course (ignore the fact that I believe the classroom is where the least learning occurs).  One actually believes in making the entire classroom experience and all interaction a learning experience, the other is just a taskmaster who makes you move from one activity to the other.  An A in one of those courses doesn’t equal an A in the other one. 

And now it gets way more interesting.  There is a reality that teachers everywhere must be honest to.  There is pressure to make sure that courses are easily passable by any student who gives a “fair shake.”  A teacher who raises standards really high, fails 99% of their students, and then defends themselves to higher-ups by saying “But everyone really learned a lot,” is still probably going to be on the chopping block at the end of the day.  What this means is that the teacher must manually adjust the pace of the class to suit average students’ abilities.  And if you are a student in a class who is committed to going full-steam ahead, this means that the class is wasting your time, on a time-efficiency basis. 

Any measurement with a ceiling is a measurement that cannot work for you.  Consequently, seat time and attendance are also bad uses of measurements.  What is necessary is a universal measurement that you can concretely measure progress.

And that’s why measuring increments of “things learned today you didn’t know before” is the best measurement you can come to.

Levels of tests are not great.  JLPT 1-kyuu is definitively not the best in Japanese you can get.  990 TOEIC score is also pretty good, except even native speakers can not get a 990 (and what does that tell you about the standards) and there’s still a ceiling.  TOEFL is the same story.

There are only two things that matter in your measurements.  Reviewing to not forget, and measuring newly learned things.  The reviewing is why instead of using multiple separate measurements, I attempt to consolidate everything into one SRS for review. 

Grades are a construct that are ultimately pretty meaningless to the independent learner.  And regularly stretching and moving on, and actively testing ones self to measure unending progress is the most important thing you ever really achieve.

Posted in Learning | 21 Comments

Facepalm! Turning down Opportunities Because You’re Not Good Enough

By Ryan | Published: June 22, 2010

I’ve seen it so many times.

“I’m not going to study abroad because I’m not good at English yet.”

“I’m not going to make a presentation in (language) because people will laugh at me.”

“I’m not going to try for that translating job because I don’t feel close enough to a native yet.”

I’ve got bad news for you.  You just missed out on a great opportunity.  What am I defining as a great opportunity?  A great opportunity is an opportunity that gives you more opportunities.  Ideally your goal is to multiply them so much that you eventually have your hands full doing them. 

I’ll give you an example.  About two years ago, I was asked to show up on a radio how where I was going to be interviewed by two people in Japanese, although if necessary I could speak in English and they could translate into Japanese. I, of course, wanted to speak in Japanese, and the interpreter was tired that day, so Japanese it was.

Was I the most amazing interviewee ever?  Close, but no.  I am hyper-critical of everything, and I know I made mistakes.  But later I was asked to take over for the interviewer when she gave up the role to move on to better things.  Then I was asked to do my own radio show after that.

See how it works?   Taking chances based on skills you have that others don’t brings more choices.

If you’re like me (and I imagine you are), you are also hyper-critical, and probably think you’re not perfect.

Good.  You’re human.  That’s natural. 

But if you do rise to the occasion, and you put in your best effort, others will see it.  Do it enough times, and it will snowball.  Of course, the challenge after that is to make sure that you don’t just help the same people, but that you also help a lot of people.  If you can’t do it for them, do it for yourself.

But don’t sell yourself short.  Rising to the occasion is exactly the reason I continue to get better at the languages I speak.   This is the most critical part about what I’m asking you to do.  The point about taking on more and more experiences is that you get more and more experience (see what  did there?) in your language of choice.  And that makes you better at handling the things you never thought you could do before in your new language.  It makes you and it makes your language better.

Would you:

  • Translate for a friend?
  • Teach a class in your target language?
  • Give a presentation in your target language?
  • Give a speech?
  • Start a business?

These are all things that I either have or will do in the future.   What things will you do?

Posted in Motivation | 15 Comments

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